Fourth LOF post

11/26/2012

Your initial post is due on Friday, and your response to a classmate is due Sunday.

Read the essential question, and write a thoughtful post. You must cite at least one passage from Lord of the Flies to support your thinking about the question. Your post must be at least 100 words.

You must use the CLAIM, EVIDENCE, ELABORATION model.

Your response to a classmate must also be thoughtful. You must respond to at least one other classmate. Your response must be at least 50 words. No citation from the text is necessary for your response.

4. When is the restriction of freedom a good thing?

52 Comments

Eric Lo,Period 5

11/26/2012 02:00:19 pm

Claim: Restrictions of freedom are a good thing when rules are needed. When rules are the only thing that would be keeping the group sane and afloat.

Evidence: For example in the novel, Lord of the Flies by William Golding,Piggy states that rules are the only thing that is going to keep the community or group of boys alive. Piggy thinks that if the boys stick together and follow the rules they will survive and get rescued." Because the rules are the only thing we've got!" (91).

Elaboration: Rules are what keep people together but can also pull people apart. In the Lord of the Flies, the boys need to stick together as a group. They will survive a lot longer and have a higher chance of surviving.

Brandon Yip Period 5

12/2/2012 12:29:17 pm

Your quote shows what a group of people should do if they are stranded in a distant area far from their home or destination. Rules are pretty much the most important things in a group. It keeps things more under control than Jack's way of thinking. Ralph should have tried harder to keep the group together than being laid back.

Aren Lim Period 5

12/6/2012 01:25:56 pm

Your quote really made me think about how restrictions are very useful when you need to make rules. When everything is going out of control, you need some sort of control to get everybody to get together and solve problems. Your evidence really put your claim in the spotlight, and your elaboration really brightened up you claim.

Lika M. Period 5

11/27/2012 03:13:18 am

Claim: The restriction of freedom is a good thing when trying to start a new civilization or government.

Evidence: In the novel, LORD OF THE FLIES, by William Golding, Ralph tells Jack that the rules are the only thing that keeps them together and alive. He states, "' You're breaking the rules!' ... 'Because the rules are the only thing we've got!'" (91).

Elaboration: What Ralph means by that passage was that he believes that the rules are a good thing for all of them. The rules are placed for a purpose-- to keep everything and everyone alive so that they might be rescued someday. The rules might be a little restricting for the boys; however, they all need to do what is necessary to be able to live productively. Having complete freedom is not a good option to start their lives over on the island. This passage shows when having restrctions of freedom is a good thing.

Andrew L. , Period 5

11/28/2012 12:02:54 pm

This quote brings the sagacity of what Ralph could typically become. As Ralph recalls what is at stake, he clearly perceives that his only way to succeed is to take responsibility. Ralph tries to voice his thoughts; he is continuously rebuked by the perfidy of Jack's attitude towards the whole idea of unity. Ralph has the right idea and encourages the thought over to Jack.

Eric Lo, Period 5

11/29/2012 01:15:29 pm

This quote shows how people need rules to grow something. In a community, you need rules to see how far the community can go until something bad occurs. If nothing happens then the rules you have provided are potent enough to withstand the community. But in others, make risk will be involved and more and more rules would be added. Freedom is something people take for granted but should also have its limits.

Jacelyn K., Per 6

11/30/2012 11:53:18 pm

I agree with you completely. Though freedom can be a good thing, it needs to be limited in order to keep chaos from ensuing, especially in a group of young boys without the sense of government or civilization.

Cally M., Period 5

12/1/2012 06:50:56 am

I agree with your statement that restriction of freedom is needed for the establishment of a civilization and government. Laws restrict freedom, but for a good purpose. They are set to maintain order and guide people to do the right things. By pointing out Jack’s violation of the rules, Ralph is showing that he understands the importance of restriction of freedom.

Andrew L. , Period 5

11/28/2012 11:54:22 am

CLAIM: The restriction of freedom is a good thing when one pursues the goal to establish a civilization, suitable for all.

EVIDENCE: For example in the novel, Lord of the Flies by William Golding, Ralph explains aggressively to Jack the only method to which survival is possible, which is the establishment of the justified code of conducts. Ralph puts on a dispute with Jack as he states, " 'Because the rules are the only thing we've got!' " (91).

ELABORATION: Ralph puts on a big disagreement with Jack as shows his perfidy towards the unity of the lost boys. Ralph is desperately trying to unite the lost boys, while Jack is choosing to rebel and establish his own tribe. As Ralph continues with effort to persuade Jack to enable the code of conducts, he tries to explain how it would help them. The establishment of laws work as a foundation and the basis of a civilized society, as Ralph is desperately trying to achieve.

Justin Tang

11/28/2012 12:33:47 pm

I agree with your claim because someone needs to pursue the goal of establishing a civilization. Usually people fight for freedom but when someone is trying to establish a base for everyone to stand on, it is okay for that person to take the lead. Someone needs to organize the group together and lead them to safety.

Justin Tang

11/28/2012 01:03:51 pm

Claim: Restriction of freedom is a good thing when someone is in charge and trying their hardest to bring everyone up.
Evidence: When their civilization is at the meeting and they are discussing about Ralph being leader, "[Ralph is] like Piggy. He says things like Piggy. He isn't a proper chief" (126).
Elaboration: If Ralph wasnt there to hold them together, they would be in chaos and no one escape from the island. Jack would probably be the new leader and he would focus on hunting instead of trying to save the majority of the kids on the island while ships pass by that island

Tara D., Period 5

11/30/2012 01:11:16 pm

I agree with your claim because that is what Ralph kept trying to do, trying his hardest to bring everyone up because he was the chief Even though Ralph himself was scared and wanted to be rescued, he still stay strong for the little ones who were scared of the beast and who yearned to be rescued and go home.

Lika M. Period 5

12/1/2012 02:26:35 pm

This passage made me consider that Ralph knew that the rules that were set are important for bringing up the people or party of people. Ralph is discussed about by the others because he is appearing to be more like Piggy, seen as the talkative, brave boy who tells everyone what they are doing wrong and to listen to the chief. Ralph now understands that what Piggy wanted in the first place is important for everyone, since everyone's ultimate goal is to be rescued someday. The restrictions of freedom (the rules) is showcased as a good thing to have.

Alex D.

12/2/2012 12:35:47 pm

Yes this is true because in order to create a society is too ard to create when everybody is talking and out of control. It will never become civilized and there will only be chitter chatter.

Cally M., Period 5

11/28/2012 02:36:22 pm

Claim: Restriction of freedom is a good thing because it prevents people from performing inappropriate actions and keeps order by regulating people’s behavior.
Evidence: Piggy understands the importance of the need to restrict freedom. When Jack violates the rules by speaking without the conch, Piggy voices his opinion. “You’re breaking the rules! The rules are the only thing we’ve got!” (91). When there is so much chaos and disorganization on the island, the boys can’t afford to allow the rules to be abandoned.
Elaboration: Rules limit freedom by setting guidelines to control what happens among a society and they are usually established to benefit and protect people. They ensure justice, equality, and provide a sense of civilization.

alvin o. per. 5

11/30/2012 01:22:41 pm

Saying that the restriction of excessive freedom is a safer approach than allowing a person or a group of persons to utilize and take advantage of all of their freedom, having the possible chance that the person or group of persons may misuse their freedom. I strongly agree with this statement, having it to relate to mine very well.

Benjamin L., Period 5

12/2/2012 03:30:18 pm

I agree, rules helped or try top help us control our action and behavior. This world would become crazy and a total chaos without rules. Rules are basically the #1 important thing in life in order to survive and to have peace to this world as well.

Jacelyn K., Per 6

11/30/2012 11:30:41 am

Claim: Restriction of freedom is needed when discipline and order is used to establish a society.

Evidence: Ralph was the one who understood the need of rules and discipline. In the story Lord of the Flies, he said "Because rules are all we got!" (91).

Elaboration: Without rules and limitations on freedom, disorder and chaos ensues. It makes it nearly impossible to get any common goal done. In the boys case, it was the yearning to get home. Without Ralph's rules and Piggy's suggestions, the boys would never have a chance in getting spotted and returning home.

Dinh T, Period 5

12/2/2012 03:34:07 am

I agree with your claim because I also believe that the restriction of freedom is needed when you are trying to establish order and discipline. Without the restriction of freedom, no one would want to work together or follow the rules. One person shouldn’t have more freedom than everyone else because that would makes things unfair for everyone else

59 words

Aron I. Peroid 5

12/2/2012 12:03:34 pm

I think that you made a good example of when restriction of freedom is needed. Your claim and evidence made me think about how important discipline is needed in a person to make them that much more successful. The discipline, which restricts freedom to a certain extent, helps society stay in order and move forward with a goal in mind.

Alvin O. per. 5

11/30/2012 01:01:30 pm

CLAIM
The restriction of freedom is a good thing when certain situations get out of hand, tending to cause disruption.
EVIDENCE
For example in the novel, Lord of the Flies by William Golding chapter two, when the suggestion of making a fire on the mountain was brought up, everyone, especially the little kids, went wild and crazy, ignoring the conch, and initiating a mob mentality that encouraged others to join, as it was shown here: " 'A fire! Make a fire!' At once the boys were on their feet. Jack clamored among them, the conch forgotten"(38).
ELABORATION
I have always believed that limiting freedom was always a good thing, because freedom could easily be misused. In this case, because there are no adults around, the kids were able to grasp and experience an amount of freedom they have never been exposed to.

An H., Period 5

12/2/2012 04:17:04 pm

The quote was an excellent example to use since it represents the first time they did things without thinking everything through. In addition, what they did by lighting a fire caused a part of the island to be burned. If there isn't a limit to their freedom, then there could be lots more of destruction happening.

Jeffery W., Per. 5

12/6/2012 09:25:19 am

I agree with your claim and elaboration because although people want to be free, it would be chaotic and rules are needed in order to keep everything in check. If they are given a lot of freedom, then they wouldn’t learn how to control themselves and do whatever they want.

James R., Period 5

12/6/2012 08:39:18 am

I also do believe that limiting freedom is always a good thing. It's part of human nature. Sometimes it's hard for people who does not have a ethical mindset to control themselves. Setting rules and restricting freedom has always been one of the solutions. It's just like when Ralph called for an important meeting a while ago to make rules and give orders for the cause of refining the boys.

Tara D., Period 5

11/30/2012 01:05:56 pm

Claim: Restriction of freedom can be a good thing in instances where an opportunity of establishing a new society and when you need to make rules that people have to follow to have a civilized society.

Evidence: In the LORD OF THE FLIES, by William Golding, Ralph tries to remind Jack that the rules were what kept them stable and civilized. "' The rules are the only thing we've got '" (91).

Elaboration:Establishing rules within a society limits a persons freedom which is why our society is stable and it keeps other people from getting harmed. Once people start breaking and going against the rules like what Jack did, society's stability breaks out and it causes chaos within the society which is what is happening in the story.

Dominic Garcia Per.5

12/13/2012 04:55:00 am

I agree with tara if it wasn't for the economy right now every state in the u.s. would be fighting each other and the goverment not being able to control anyone.

Aron I. Period 5

11/30/2012 01:36:34 pm

Claim:
Restriction of freedom is a good thing when laws and rules are forbidding and preventing people from doing things that are morally wrong.

Evidence:
For example, in the book, LORD OF THE FLIES by William Golding, when Roger and Maurice where buying or picking on the younger kids, this quote came into play ‘“Now, though there was no parent to let fall a heavy hand, Maurice still felt the unease of wrongdoing.”’ (60)

Elaboration:
Maurice had parents who punished him back at his home for doing morally wrong things, which prevents him from doing bad things, but since there is too much freedom and no rules or laws to restrict it, Roger and Maurice still end up doing bad things on the island.

Courtney Thong

12/2/2012 01:57:32 pm

I agree. If Maurice parents didn't punish him back home, then he would still be doing wrong things. He would also be in a different place if they didn't punish him. Since, Maurice parents weren't on the island, no one could punish him.

Wei L. Period 5

12/12/2012 12:29:48 pm

I agree that restriction is a good thing when it prevents people from doing wrong things. Maurice shows a good example of how freedom can be abused depending on where he is. I think that strict rules should be implemented on the island so it would be civilized just like his home.

An H., Period 5

11/30/2012 03:21:39 pm

Claim: Restriction on freedom is a good thing when you are trying to make a new civilization and prevent it to become something you don’t want it to be.

Evidence: In the novel, LORD OF THE FLIES by William Golding, while Jack and Ralph was arguing, it ended with Ralph shouting and Jack shouting back at him. ”’The rules!’…’You’re breaking the rules!’…’Who cares?’…’Because the rules are the only thing we’ve got!’…’Bollocks to the rules! We’re strong-we hunt!...’’’(91).

Elaboration: Here, it shows how rules are important as they act as a restriction to freedom; without the rules, the group of boys could become a group of scavenges and warriors instead of becoming a group of civilized people.

Dinh T, Period 5

12/1/2012 10:39:14 am

Claim:

The restriction of freedom is a good thing when you are trying to make a civilized society where there are rules and justice. If freedom isn't restricted, everyone wouldn't work together and everything would fall apart.

Evidence:

For example in the novel, LORD OF THE FLIES by William Golding, Ralph says that the rules are necessary so that everyone can act properly and one person cannot have too much freedom. They are also necessary to keep everyone from becoming savages. Ralph says, “Because we can’t have proper assemblies if you don’t stick to the rules” (90).

Elaboration:

Ralph believes that if there aren't any rules, there would be a lot of chaos and they would never be able to get rescued. Everyone wouldn't be helping each other and would only care about their own survival. The smaller boys probably won’t be able to survive so that is why rules are necessary to keep everyone civilized and alive.

155 words

Courtney Thong

12/1/2012 04:43:53 pm

Claim:The restriction of freedom is a good thing if you want to protect someone.
Evidence:In LORD OF THE FLIES , Beast from Water breaks up and he fears that the boys would ignore him if he blows the conch Ralph considers the possibility. He says, and I quote, "I ought to give up being chief. Hear 'em." Piggy is totally dismayed and gripping Ralph's arm tells him that, "If Jack was chief he'd have all hunting and no fire. we'd be here till we died." Simon reinforced Piggy's remarks by saying "Piggy's right, Ralph. there's you and Jack. Go on being chief."
Elaboration:Piggy knows that Ralph is the only thing that is preventing Jack from becoming chief and he fears what might happen if Jack did become chief. If Jack or someone else were to become chief, it is very likely that Piggy could get victimized even more.

Dawson W., Period 5

12/13/2012 05:05:50 am

I agree when someone starts out as a chief, people around them thinks that they have the power and that no one can harm them. In this situation Ralph is in charge and he's protecting piggy from Jack and when Ralph leaves piggy will become the main victim that everyone wants to pick on.

Aren Lim Period 5

12/2/2012 10:19:06 am

Claim:
The restrictions of freedom are good when you are trying to claim order within a society.

Evidence:
When Jack blew the conch trying to regain order within the people of the island, everybody ignored him, and actually started to boo him. At that point, it was pretty obvious that all sense of order was lost.

Elaboration:
Having a restriction of freedom at that point of the story would be beneficial because in the situation they were in, they were in desperate need for order. If they would have grouped together in obedience, then they could have potentially came to a verdict, and resolved many problems.

Cergio Angel Period 5

12/13/2012 05:01:08 am

I agree with your quote because of course we all need our freedom sometimes, or just to be able to enjoy freely on some things. But When it comes to being serious, or just crossing the line of going over your freedom which may lead to a crime. Then it was there must be a border line and set things with boundaries.

Alex D.

12/2/2012 12:34:30 pm

Claim:
Restriction of freedom may be a good thing in certain situations like when making a new society and order is needed. In every society, order and civilized people are needed, and the restriction of freedom may be enforced for the meantime until the new society is managed.
Evidence:
In the LORD OF THE FLIES by William Golding, Ralph attempts to tell Jack that the rules were what kept them humane and civilized. "' The rules are the only thing we've got.'"
Elaboration:
Making and enforcing rules for a society limits a persons freedom which is why our society is orderly and it makes sure other people dont get harmed. If people start breaking and going against the rules like what Jack did, the society's order is destroyed and it causes chaos within the society which is what is happening in the story. Thus the society split into two.

raymond(steelers fan) morales

12/10/2012 05:29:47 am

i agree

Brandon Yip Period 5

12/2/2012 12:36:12 pm

Claim:
The restriction of freedom is good when you have to keep a group of people under control and sane with rules.
Evidence:
When the group of littluns and Jack's hunters acted crazy and noisy, Ralph blew the conch, but every one of them ignored him and scattered off with Jack. After that, you can really see that almost everyone in the group started to act MORE immature and psychotic than their first meeting together.
Elaboration:
Having this restriction of freedom is what they really need in their current state in the island. Why? So they could keep each other safe and to calm everybody down when something goes terribly wrong.

raymond(steelers fan) morales

12/10/2012 05:29:21 am

Benjamin L., Period 5

12/2/2012 03:26:38 pm

Claim: Restriction of freedom is a good way so then we would have a stabilized society. Having rules, directions, etc are important in this world and to life as well.
Evidence: In the LORD OF THE FLIES by William Golding, Ralph tries to remind Jack that the rules were what kept them stable and civilized. For example: “the rules are the only thing we’ve got.” (pg 91).
Elaboration: Having rules are very important to our society and to life. Without rules then this world, planet earth, and this entire life would be all ruin and total chaos would/could happen anywhere in anytime. Rules would helped control some people’s behavior or action and could be a learning lesson as well.

James R., Period 5

12/6/2012 06:41:23 am

Claim: The restriction of freedom a good thing when one doesn’t have the ethical mindset to be of his or own.

Evidence: For example in the novel, Lord of the Flies by William Golding, while Ralph and Jack were exploring for the beast, the other boys lost their sense of mind and started playing around instead of worrying about aiding Ralph and Jack. When they came back, Ralph, watching what was happening, aggressively told them the importance of this particular trip. “At once the idea were back, and the anger. ‘ We want smoke. And you go wasting your time. You roll rocks.’… ‘I’m chief. We’ve got to make certain. Can’t you see the mountain? There’s no signal showing. There maybe a ship out there. Are you all off your knockers?’ Mutinously, the boys fell silent or muttering” (107-108).

Elaboration: Because of the boys forgot the importance of this situation and started wandering off, Ralph had to put himself together and deliver an angry speech to discipline the rest of the boys. Simple enough, Ralph’s effort to bring restrictions to the boys worked effectively.

Jeffery W., Per. 5

12/6/2012 09:22:39 am

Claim: Restriction of freedom is only good when the people do not know their priorities. Freedom is most likely given to those who follow the rules.
Evidence: In LORD OF THE FLIES, by William Golding, Ralph tries to tell Jack and everyone else that they need to follow the rules or else they would just throw everyone into chaos. “‘Because rules are the only thing we’ve got!’” (91).
Elaboration: Rules, although they are hard to follow sometimes, are what allows us to know our limits and try things that are very hard to do. Ralph wants to be saved so he wants to keep things civilized before people want to kill each other, so he sets rules. Jack wanted to break away from Ralph because of those rules and also because he only wanted to hunt for food.

Jose R., Period 5

12/10/2012 05:04:02 am

Claim: when you have restrictions of freedom its a good thing when rules are needed. When rules are the only thing that would be keeping the group sane everyone alive.

Evidence: For example in the story, Lord of the Flies by William Golding,Piggy says rules are the only thing that is going to keep the group of boys alive. Piggy thinks that if the guys stay together and follow the rules they will survive and get rescued." Because the rules are the only thing we've got!" (p91).

Elaboration:The rules are what keep people together but can also pull them apart. We can all agree on some rule and other disagree.

Jose Romero PERIOD 5

12/10/2012 05:26:00 am

Claim:Restriction of freedom is a good thing when laws and rules are forbidding and preventing people from doing things that are morally wrong.
Evidence:For example, in the book, lord of the flies by, William Golding, when Roger and Maurice where buying or picking on the younger kids, this quote came into play ‘“Now, though there was no parent to let fall a heavy hand, Maurice still felt the unease of wrongdoing.”’ [p60]
Elaboration:Maurice had parents who punished him back at his home for doing morally wrong things, which prevents him from doing bad things, but since there is too much freedom and no rules or laws to restrict it, Roger and Maurice still end up doing bad things on the island.

raymond(steelers fan) morales

12/10/2012 05:29:09 am

Claim: the restriction of freedom is a alright thing when someone is in command and they are trying to bring up everyone up
Evidence: when their civilization is at the meeting and they are discussing about ralph being the leader.
Elaboration: if ralph wasnt there to hold them together, they would be in choas and no one would escape from the island .

Wei L. Period 5

12/12/2012 12:54:58 pm

Claim:
The restriction of freedom is a good thing when one cannot be responsible for the wrongful actions that they’ve done.
Evidence:
For example, in the book, LORD OF THE FLIES by William Golding, Jack tells his tribes to go and take Piggy’s glasses to light a fire. “From his left hand dangled Piggy’s broken glasses.” (168)
Elaboration:
Jack takes things by force and doesn’t regret it because there is no civilization. Ralph has ignored rules that Ralph created, so there is no longer any restriction of freedom for him on the island.

Robert Carrasco

12/13/2012 05:30:31 am

I agree with you because Jack does try to things by force. Just like he took some of Ralph's fire without asking.

dominic GArcia per.5

12/13/2012 04:52:58 am

Claim: the restrictions of freddom is a good thing when one cannot be responsible for the wrongful actions that the people have done and not follow the rules.
Evidence: In the book LORD OF THE FLIES by William Golding, While jack and some of the hunters were hunting nobody was watching the fire to see that it needed more wood and it caused the boys not get rescued when the ship past by.
Elaboration: Jack says it wasn't his fault and he went hunting so he couldn't watch the fire while Ralph and Piggy were saying that they could have been rescued if he had watched the fire.

Dawson W., Period 5

12/13/2012 05:03:30 am

Claim: The restriction of freedom a good thing when you try to start a new government.

Evidence: In the novel, LORD OF THE FLIES, by william golding, Ralph tells everyone that there are rules and that they should be followed. He says,"The rules!"(91).

Elaboration: What Ralph was trying to say here is that there are certain rules that people have to follow in order to have a well balanced community. He's saying that rule is what keeps everyone together and not start a riot from each other.

Cergio Angel Period 5

12/13/2012 05:17:01 am

Claim: When there is freedom there should be restrictions. To mainly keep us together.
Evidence: "That was simon. Piggy. Uh? That was murder. You stop it! said piggy shrilly. What good're you doing talking like that."page(156). The quote was an example in Lord of the Flies about restriction.
Elaboration: What I'm trying to say with this quote is that for all the kids being outside dancing like maniacs with wooden shaped spears and paint all over them. Now in the real world you couldn't do that, plus in the end they ended up murdering one of their companies. Which was dumb of them since they were acting out of control. Which is why its safer with us in the real world since there are boundaries and laws of what we can, and can't do.

Robert Carrasco

12/13/2012 05:29:06 am

claim: the restriction of freedom is when you follow the rules and you don't disobey them like Jack does. everyone felt comfortable when they chose Ralph as their chief.

Evidence: Ralph became leader and Jack super jealous because he thought he was going to become leader. The only people that picked him as leader was his choir group. Everyone else chose Ralph. When Ralph was chosen Jack got jealous and left the group and made his own little group. When Jack became leader everything went wrong Simon ended being mistaken as the beast and Jack and his hunters ended up killing him. Piggy as well ended dying because, of Jack and his hunters pushing a rock down on to him.
Elaboration: Jack as you can see has to get his way and by getting his way everything goes wrong. Two innocent people ended up dying because, of Jack being jealous of Ralph being chief.

Raymond Tseng

12/13/2012 05:31:05 am

Claim: Restriction of freedom is a good thing when people have a desire to do malicious actions that can potentially be harmful to others.
Evidence: In the Lord of the Flies, Jack had an urge to ruin Ralph's civilization, so he did some actions that caused chaos and terror throughout the island, like focusing a lot of energy in killing a beast that doesn't exist. This strikes terror into the hearts of the littluns.
Elaboration: In every country, there are restrictions of freedom in order to maintain peace. Restriction of freedom is good when it prevents bad people from doing bad things.

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